Because I know I will get an email about this, telling me that I'm wrong, when I'm NOT.
In older English, we used to differentiate between "you singular" and "you plural" kind of like the vosotros form in Spanish. And Latin too, which makes sense, because Spanish is Latin simplified with Arabic thrown in. (Yes, that's a gross oversimplification, I know.)
Anyway, the lesson here is: YOU used to mean just "you singular" while YE meant "you (more than one person)". People used both, depending on who they were talking to.
In contemporary English, we've long done away with "ye" (at least in America - they still use it in parts of Ireland, in my experience. They might in other parts of the British Isles, but I haven't personally confirmed those).
So, nowadays, we don't say ye, which is just one syallable. Instead, we say "you all, you guys, ya'll, everyone..."
Now, if we could just adopt the Latin "su" to American English, please. That way I can stop having to type him or her, her or his, etc... Oh wait, we've been substituting the third person plural (them/their) for the singular since Shakespeare's time! So, please, can we just use "su"?
In older English, we used to differentiate between "you singular" and "you plural" kind of like the vosotros form in Spanish. And Latin too, which makes sense, because Spanish is Latin simplified with Arabic thrown in. (Yes, that's a gross oversimplification, I know.)
Anyway, the lesson here is: YOU used to mean just "you singular" while YE meant "you (more than one person)". People used both, depending on who they were talking to.
In contemporary English, we've long done away with "ye" (at least in America - they still use it in parts of Ireland, in my experience. They might in other parts of the British Isles, but I haven't personally confirmed those).
So, nowadays, we don't say ye, which is just one syallable. Instead, we say "you all, you guys, ya'll, everyone..."
Now, if we could just adopt the Latin "su" to American English, please. That way I can stop having to type him or her, her or his, etc... Oh wait, we've been substituting the third person plural (them/their) for the singular since Shakespeare's time! So, please, can we just use "su"?
Why do we use the second person plural to address a close friend or family member? How archaic. Nobody would do that in German, French or Spanish for example. One is either familiar with a person in which case the German terms Du Dich Dir, Dein etc and the respective grammar apply or one is not familiar and then uses the term Sie, 3rd person plural in, say, German. For the correct use of the equivalent English terms thee, thou, thine read the KJV of the Bible. Modern English Bibles do not make these subtle distinctions in speech and meaning, apart from the many problems associated with the Alexandrian MSS from which they are derived. - Burke Schreiber South Africa
ReplyDeleteThanks, Burke.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, this post was out of frustration for me in that most American auidences in my experience wrongly correct me on 'ye vs. you' without knowing the history of grammar. When I say American, that's because most of the people I interact with daily are American, for obvious reasons.
I've studied English, Spanish, Latin, French and Japanese, but I can only count to 3 in German. That's very enlightening.
Actually, "ye" and "you" were both plural, while "thou" and "thee" were singular.
ReplyDelete-Michael (also American)
Michael, you're absolutely right, historically speaking.
ReplyDeleteI was putting this in the context of contemporary uses of 'you' and 'ye'. And yes, I was very surprised to find there are some parts of the English-speaking world that still use both. *coughs into hand* Cork, Ireland!